Spiritual Safety after Betrayal with Donna Dixon

Hello, friend.

If betrayal has shaken not only your relationship, but your sense of safety in your faith, this episode is for you.

Today, I’m joined by Donna Dixon, founder of A Doorway of Hope, who trains women to facilitate faith-based support groups for those healing from betrayal. Together, we explore a deeply important and often overlooked question:

What does it actually mean to feel spiritually safe after betrayal?

For many women, betrayal doesn’t just impact trust in a partner — it disrupts trust in themselves, in others, and even in God. Spaces that once felt comforting can suddenly feel confusing, pressuring, or even harmful.

In this conversation, we gently unpack:

•  Why spiritual distress is such a common part of betrayal trauma 
•  The subtle (and not-so-subtle) ways faith spaces can feel unsafe 
•  The impact of messages like “try harder” or “don’t question God” 
•  How betrayal can create a rupture not just in relationships, but in identity and faith 
•  The difference between being tolerated vs truly welcomed 
•  What it looks like to create a spiritual space where you can show up as you are — grief, anger, doubt and all 

Donna shares a powerful truth:

Spiritual safety creates space for your journey — it doesn't pressure you to perform.

We also talk about the role of safe community — those “me too” moments where you feel seen, heard, and known — and why those moments are essential for healing.

One of my favourite takeaways from this episode is this:

Sometimes the most loving thing we can do is pause and be with — instead of fixing, correcting, or rushing someone through their pain.

If you’ve ever felt like you don’t quite fit in your faith community anymore…
 If you’ve struggled with questions, anger, or distance from God…
 If you’ve wondered, “Is there a place for me to be fully honest and still belong?”

You are not alone. And there is space for you.

Next Steps: 

If this conversation resonates, I’d love to invite you to take one small step toward support.

You can explore more resources, support options, and gentle next steps at my Quiet Wisdom website.

You might appreciate this spiritual perspective in my blogpost: God as a Betrayed Partner

To learn more about A Doorway of Hope and Donna's Peer Facilitator Course, click here. 

Or simply share this episode with someone who might need to hear the message that you are allowed to be on a journey.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello friend, welcome to Confident Again, a place to gain clarity and confidence for women who are healing from intimate betrayal. I'm Jane Gibb, and with my very special guest today, we'll be discussing spiritual safety after betrayal. If you've felt triggered, disoriented or alone in your spiritual spaces post-betrayal, this podcast is for you. Not only are we speaking to women in spiritual distress or shutdown, but we're also speaking to those who might come alongside them in spiritual spaces to help them. We normalize the experience of spiritual distress. We unpack ways that spiritual safety is impacted. We describe how to be a safer helper if you're coming alongside traumatised people. And we provide guidance for creating a sense of spiritual safety as you seek to heal from spiritual trauma. My beautiful and wise guest often refers to he in this conversation, and in this audio, you don't get to see her pointing upwards and lifting her eyes. It's a visual of a really deeply connected relationship with God, knowing that he's there and loving us so much. So without further ado, let's turn to my conversation. Today I'm super excited to have Donna Dixon with me. She's the founder of A Doorway of Hope, which is a peer facilitator training course for women who are seeking to facilitate faith-based support groups for women who've experienced betrayal. She's so passionate about creating safe spaces for women to find healing and connection and experience community. Her background is in her career as a hospital and hospice volunteer director in a major healthcare system, and she brought the amazing skills that she learned in that place into this space of training peer facilitators to help them bring safe spaces to women. And I'm super excited to have her with me. She is a very uh special friend to me. I actually met her when I did my own peer facilitator training with the doorway of hope years back. And she's always been such an encouragement, encouragement, and a mentor to me. And um, I'm just so thrilled to have you here today, Donna. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

It's just a delight. I remember well when you completed the training and getting to meet you then and your passion for what uh you were going to be moving into and um love quiet wisdom and what you're doing with that and through it.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

And isn't it um I just think I want to take a moment here to just reflect on the surprise of turning what has been very deep darkness and pain into something that can open away and support others, and I think you and I share that passion for the redemption of our stories by offering a space for other people to feel support because we remember what it was like to be in that place.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Definitely. So dark and isolated. I think that word always comes to mind with what it's like in those early days before we find places where safety and connection can happen.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Yeah, there's a great quote by Judith Herman about how um healing doesn't happen unless we have the connection. And I really believe that the support groups that you're training women to facilitate is a huge part of the opportunity for healing trauma after the experience of intimate betrayal. So today we're especially going to focus on what it looks like to create a spiritually safe space for women who've experienced intimate betrayal. Um, maybe you could tell us a bit about why you're passionate about this topic.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

The connection in our faith communities, and we're um with my background in a number of ways, a number, number of areas of my adult life, uh, were in a mixed Christian faith, meaning uh various denominational approaches. I was introduced as a follower of what what it's like to be with those who uh have different faith uh experiences, maybe denominationally, uh maybe or theologically, and be able to find safety in those groups to me as a starting place. And that can be challenging for us. Add trauma to that and betrayal trauma. And we experience often some spiritual distress in that, it's even more problematic for us. Where can I be spiritually safe with the struggles that can come after betrayal related to trusting, not just um myself because what has happened, where was I, what didn't I see, or my spouse? Um there's others where trust is really high, and including with God. So finding safety for that is as essential as breath for spiritual safety.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, I need to take a breath just to think about what you said about finding safety is as essential as breath. And in the spiritual space, which touches so deeply on who we are and how we experience ourselves, um, how we experience community, because many of us we have grown faith in the context of community, and the experience of betrayal very often impacts how we experience the spiritual community as well. And some of us have experienced hurtful and harmful things from people in our community who have said things that created more unsafety for us.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

I thought maybe we could talk a little bit about what are some of the elements of spiritual unsafety for women who have experienced a betrayal in their intimate um relationship.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Good question. I think I'd start with an understanding of um in some faith communities, it it feels unsafe when we hear, if we hear in our community, if we just tried harder, if we were more this or less that, this wouldn't have been a part of our marriage. He wouldn't stray, uh, or she wouldn't stray if it's a male partner, but it they wouldn't stray if the wife or the spouse would just do this. So it's putting the burden on the one bearing the experience rather than looking at some of the other possible dynamics. For us as female partners, it's that female role about not just trying harder, but never expressing frustration or anger or doubt about God. So then I can't come with my mourning and my grief because it's I'm so connected to God, and that's a trust issue. He's the one I am to trust, and he did not prevent this from happening in my marriage. So I I can it can be a relationship, attachment rupture with God, just like we can have attachment ruptures, and we do all the time in our relationships with others. So if I if I start back with how do I help somebody understand and bring what they are feeling, I can still stay in my own faith values and beliefs and be me and sit with somebody else, give them time, help them uh talk about and have their stories heard in a place where it's safe to be heard, where not just the individual, but the whole group comes around, and we have those me too moments. I have felt that, I have experienced that, and now I'm here, and this is how I got here. That may not be your journey, but there is a journey back to feeling that and experiencing that.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah, so I think one of the things you're saying about um creating spiritual safety and the experience of not being safe is there's no space for me to be on a journey. There's no uh I'm in a spiritual community or I have a spiritual belief system that says I have to be all good with whatever happens, I have to take full responsibility for what happened. And and that means that I don't get to show up the way that I actually am in the context of my faith because that's not that's not acceptable because of the framework that's been presented to me.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Yes, and I've already lost a a chunk of my sense of identity. My identity is has been as a spouse, my identity has been in in a large part we. Yes, I'm me, but now this we, I don't know, were we ever we? What was this, what was real, was what wasn't. And I'm if I'm going into recovery, I'm exploring that. I'm I'm somebody's helping me process that and realize that I was still me in here, even while we were we, and this is who I was, and this is who I am becoming as I grow and learn more things, get some tools to help me move forward, learn about things like boundaries and or maybe relearn them because I had. So there's things I'm learning, and now I can actually do this in my relationship with God in a new way, where will help me strengthen me for other types of experience I may have, because I can show up as me. I get to say, this is me. And to me, that's part of the beauty and part of the power of what it's like to be in a group when we get to say to each other, not just the person facilitating the group, but to each other, yes, I remember what that was like, and this is what helped me. Not saying to them, this will help you. If you do this, you will feel better. It's more about this helped me, and it gives that person something to ponder and to think of.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

When you say that, Donna, I just feel my whole like nervous system relax around, oh, I understand what you're going through, and I have experience similar to that, and I feel heard and seen in that space. And even though we're having a conversation about happening out there, even when you're saying it now, I hear in your voice the empathy that makes me go, oh, like somebody sees me.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Somebody sees me that need to be seen, heard, known, be able to be seen and known and heard.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Yeah. So to be able to be seen and heard and known, and in the context of that, to be loved and accepted.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Absolutely. The I think what are the most harmful feelings we can have in a group, whether it's a small group, a large group, a family, uh, what whatever, I think it's so painful to know that I'm tolerated here. So when we begin to our journey of recovery, the post-traumatic growth that we can have after a period of time and support and help, the post-traumatic growth to know the difference between tolerating somebody, staying differentiated in my faith. Uh, I can have my faith and my values, uh, and I can welcome you at the table. You have a welcome seat at the table. I see that as what Christ does for us. He says, Come on in. Come on in, have a seat. Let's talk. We're welcomed in when we're facilitating groups and we remain who we are while we allow somebody the place to sit broken and not see them as oh she is broken. We see them as one who's been wounded, like I've been wounded in a similar manner that I've been wounded. That does not mean something's wrong with me. That's why trauma-informed language, I it can be such a biblical understanding. With trauma-informed language, I'm looking at the other and I'm saying, not what's wrong with you, not pathologizing them. I'm curious and I lean in and I say, What happened to you? Even if that's internally. Um, he's the only one who knows all my stories. Even I don't remember some of them, but he does. And I have a welcome seat at the table while we unpack them. So when we do that collectively in a group, it's a safe place to be. It won't always feel safe, especially in our where we live now, in a world with where we have easy access to all the difference in our uh denominational approach to faith. So we have to be able to feel uh when we're guiding that group process. We need to be, I think the challenge for those of us who are serving in any capacity as a church leader or faith leader, or as you are as an excellent certified absats coach, among other gifts and skills you bring to your role. But when we sit with, we remain supportive even when we aren't fully understanding where somebody is at. We let them unpack with us and guide them in the process. I think the thing I hear most when I'm going through the uh training experience with trainees is how grateful they are for the tools they were given through their interactions with coaches or clinicians or recovery groups, facilitated recovery groups. I learned some tools. I learned how to breathe. I learned breathing exercises, or I learned grounding tools, I learned how to establish boundaries because of safety, not to try to have control over. So there's lots of gifts that they receive in a group, and then they want to give back later. That's why they end up knocking on our door and ask for facilitator training, because sometimes they've been harmed in groups or harmed in their church or experience that, not been seen, heard, known, and wanted, welcomed. Welcome and wanted is one step beyond accepted.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yeah, a hundred percent. And actually, if I I'd like to share a scripture around that because I think the Apostle Paul in the book of Romans says to welcome one another as Christ is welcomed us, and that just I remember reading that text and being like, oh, this is like my arms wide open, my eyes engaging. I love having you in my in my space.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

Like you get to be you, you get to be you, the freedom of that, because for many of us who've been gone through the betrayal story, wow, reality is all of us got through the betrayal story, have experienced gaslighting. So our reality uh was uh uh was chipped away at our sense of what's truth. I feel like I'm at the in the the last week of Lent where Christ goes and he's asked. So what's truth? So what we don't know what truth is anymore. So in groups with safe people in our church, helping somebody or our faith communities, helping somebody express the reality of what it's like to lose me. I'm not enough, I'm too much. All of those things that factor into this and chip away at our identity and the gift we can. I know I've experienced that even as the trainer, I'm experiencing it with each group. I get the honor of leading through a training cohort. And I'm I'm pretty sure the rest of us would say that when we're walking alongside others, we learn things and grow. I continue recovery, I continue growing because of what people share helps me step into maybe a little more vulnerability or authenticity or strength. Remember the first time I heard a partner say, I am worth being loved well. That sat with me. Do I believe that about myself? Well, he does, right? He believes we're worth being loved well, which is why he being and how he loves us, he loves us well. So modeling that that I through grace upon grace, out of his fullness, we have received grace upon grace. Through that grace, I can love others well. And I could pause if there was a tool I would say, I wish I had had a long time ago, it would be the gift of the pause instead of reacting or even responding momentarily. If I pause, I might love someone well instead of trying to fix and correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

And the re what that requires of me as a person who comes alongside a person in spiritual distress is a willingness to suspend um certainty and also to sit with discomfort.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yes. Be comfortable sitting with discomfort.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

I would have stopped eight years ago if that hadn't become my mantra.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah. I think I I can hear you saying be comfortable being uncomfortable. Yeah.

unknown 21:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Gives me courage to say it's it is. It is, but trauma and trauma is so widespread. It's it's there's so much trauma in our world. We can't turn on any news without hearing about traumatic events. Uh in it doesn't matter what nation you're part of or what community you're part of. There's so much trauma happening. The scope of it, the types of it, our personal histories with it. So there's so much. So it's very hard then uh to we're challenged after that. We want certain We feel like we can't have safety without certainty. Well, we get in airplanes and we're frightened because we've known the most recent aircraft problem. I'm terrified of turbulence. I know how normal it is. I know all of that. I can think of that. And I want a certain kind of flight. You think of every experience we can have. So helping, helping each other, that there's I can live with mystery, which holds the uncertainty about some things. That I've learned to be comfortable with uncertainty. I do not like it, though.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

That's a that's a really beautiful differentiation and um recognition of our human condition. Yes. We don't have the uh ability as human beings to have complete certainty. And I think some of us use faith as a way to um underpin certainty. And when we have an experience of betrayal, the certainty that we had in the in the concepts or community of our faith is really fractured. And I remember myself after my in my own story having this particular piece of Bible teaching that I needed someone to explain to me because I could not make it fit with my experience. And I remember like that would be my first question when I interviewed a new counselor or a therapist. Can you help me understand what this is about? And I wanted someone so much to give me certainty around that piece of the text. And I um, by God's grace, had somebody help me by help allowing me to sit with the discomfort of that uncertainty and explore for myself and connect with myself as I learn to be okay with actually. I might not never have certainty around this, but I need to feel grounded in the choices that I'm making, that God is still with me in that.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

It was a different journey than I expected.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Very different. I Psalm 91, you know, about all the protection God's going to give. Those are the kind of verses we have to be able to sit with and say, um, God. I wasn't, we weren't, they weren't. This protection didn't happen. So now what? What do I do? Well, we lament. Uh lament as a practice. If I would encourage that for me, is such a spiritual makes a spiritual impact in our ability to be uncomfortable and to express to him as they did our those ancients of ours. And now it's it's has an uptick in interest and lament. I think because people are feeling that distress of where are you, God? Well, that's the lament from the Psalms and uh Jesus from the cross, the Psalm 22. So introducing that, I look at that as a spiritual tool we can give and enter into a lament with. They did not lament alone, they practiced lament as a people. So we're I I believe we're created to lament together, to mourn together. Um, we just a lot of us, particularly more stoic, uh we were fine. I want to get that sweatshirt that says, I'm fine, fine, fine.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah, I'm fine. We're fine, everything's fine. Everything's fine, yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

And it's and in the inside, I'm crumbling. So I want to I want to be in with those who say I'm struggling. I often in my introductory call, I use language to describe our community. What is the Adore Way of Hope community like? What might you experience in this group? Uh, because they you're the we're all groups are dissimilar in different ways, even if you're neighbors, you have different stories. So I'd say as a faith community, we're all over the map. We have all these different denominations. Um, and well, so does he. He knows all these denominations are out there, and the 12 disciples were a mixed group. A zealot and a tax collector, who would think? Only Jesus. But anyway, I describe my faith this way: I cannot breathe without Jesus, and I have questions, I have mystery, because I want to paint a picture that this is okay. I don't, there's a last line to a song my husband and I like, and he's the the lyric is something like this. I don't know what's on the other side. He's talking about the dying process, but I have hopes you'll be waiting there for me. To me, that's not a lament, that's a song of praise, an honest praise. I don't know, I can't know for sure what's on the other side. The only one who came back and told me was him that I trust. That's the one he's talking about trusting. So when we paint landscapes for people to be able to sit with their discomfort about their faith without judging that as not spiritual enough, or um to me, that's like I'm learning to live where this you may it may not be in the same space as me, but that's okay. I'm not the shepherd leading you home. Can I walk with you a while? I'm here to listen. I take very seriously my role. I'm not a pastor, I'm not an expert. I'm a fellow pilgrim with him. To me, that helps me remember creating a safe culture spiritually, it's a big challenge and it's an honor. Right? To attempt that.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yes, and we won't get it right all the time.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

No, no, no, I no, I we can't be experts in that. When I think about I read a um post today, it's two more days till Good Friday, or another day and a half now. Um, and about all of those he loves so much walking with him, the disciples, the they were all the the women, everybody was confused. They had no idea, even though he had prepared them for the crucifixion. I'm going, I'm going to die and I'm going to come back. That had been prepared, but they were a hot mess. You didn't give up on them. So I don't give up on give up hope.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about what are some practical tips for women experiencing spiritual distress or spiritual shutdown that can begin to create a sense of spiritual safety for them? Like what can they actually do themselves?

SPEAKER_01 30:29

What can they do themselves? Start with, I would I would encourage starting with an understanding that that spiritual distress is normal. It's normal. It's sort of like the feeling we have as partners. Am I crazy for either my I can't get out of bed, I'm staying in bed till afternoon, I just can't get up to rage all the different feelings we can have. Well, spiritual distress, that's our most as intimate as our relationship is with our spouses. That's more intimate. And so spiritual distress with that, we're not be comfortable, become comfortable feeling uncomfortable about where you are. Please not panicked about that. Please give yourself time. Um that he will bring you to another place in your journey. It and it is as hard as it feels. When it's hard, or you you have doubts. Doubts are part of the questions that people who were genuinely authentic in their faith that approached Jesus. They had questions and he didn't shame them. He answered them. Or he asked another question about them, not to send them away, but to help them bring up what was in. So understand it's do you hear anything that it's normal to have spiritual distress in a medical field? Um, it's not unusual in healthcare systems to for people who don't have a real strong under personal faith to still do spiritual distress assessments of patients because they understand the impact of that and that it's normal when we're facing crises to have that. So it begins by normalizing it.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yeah, well, um, I'm hearing you say we don't should on ourselves. No, we don't should know I should have more faith, or I should be okay, or I should be joyful in the midst of this trial. We accept that we're at where we're at. And I love what you said about he's not panicked about that. God isn't in distress about the fact that we don't have it all together spiritually.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Yeah, I I don't know. I think part of my um experienced a lot of emotional distress and spiritual distress in my mid-30s to late 30s. And one of my biggest takeaways from that time is to my shock, he wasn't distressed about me. He stayed present even when I didn't think I felt like I was alone in the planet, and it was wise counsel uh that and gentle wisdom from a therapist who really helped me understand and put into place an understanding of he's there, he's just there, yeah. And you know what? He doesn't try to fit, he never forcibly tries to fix us, he brings healing to us, and it's slow. I'm less distressed if somebody is angry with God than as I'm wearing that sweatshirt that says I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And if they haven't done their mourning and and grieving, uh mourning and uh grieving is part of trauma recovery. We have to feel the feelings that are under there, and we're afraid to share. If we're spiritual bypassing, because we're applying a verse instead of feeling angry with God, we're afraid to say that. Yeah, we've been taught not to.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Yeah, yes, and we have hold ourselves to that standard, yes, and that and that standard isn't is actually increasing our distress and coming to a place of normalizing and accepting that I'm uncomfortable. Yeah, um, that that can is actually a really tangible step towards healing. I'm wondering if there's some other things that maybe we could share around what could we do differently while we're in this space of spiritual distress or disenchantment.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Well, first thing I'm going to say is if you could find a, you know, I could find someone like Jane, I'm gonna look for someone like Jane. They're out there looking. They're looking who do I look for for help? So that's one thing. And if it's my faith, particularly those of us who faith is important to us, that you find they're finding you would have been a gift in my first few years. Uh, so finding someone and and then being part of a group where other strugglers can be can show up as them themselves. That you know, we're not trying to fix, we're trying to heal, and healing takes time. But so those are two things. So normalizing, but finding community, beginning to recognize what I'm searching for, whether it's with God or others, what helps me feel safe? Being able, that's really hard to identify in the beginning. So I'm asking the impossible when I state that, stating the impossible. I don't, I didn't know that what I was looking for was safety until somebody taught me that. I don't want to say, for example, um, I just don't understand God why you let this happen. Picture that new and imaginary kind of picture of you sitting somewhere where you are really comfortable. Where's the most comfortable place you can be right now? Is it in nature? Is it in a room in a house? Is it in another country? Is it someplace you can imagine where you would feel safe? Picture yourself there. And then picture yourself where he's there, where Christ is there. You you don't have to look at him if you don't want to, but he's there and he's just sitting with you. He's waiting for you just to be with him. You can speak to him if you want to, you can ask him a question. You can say, I'm really upset and angry or afraid or whatever I'm feeling. Feel a feeling and say a feeling to him, and then just let it sit there. So practicing that can be very hard for us. On the other side of that, for some of us, this has been me. This has also been me. I've done that and I've done this. Take a fast walk if you can. Take a fast walk, you don't have to listen to anything, you can just walk. And as you feel comfortable doing so, because this is a somatic type of thing, where your body, because trauma's in our body, so where you're you're just walking. And then as you're walking, just say to God, and you don't have to say it out loud, or you can. Whatever you want to do in that moment where you feel like you can, and say to God something that you're questioning, or something you're angry about, something you feel, something you need. And so invite Him in in a way that feels most natural for you. Because right now, identifying something spiritual can be challenging. If you already have a comfortable spiritual practice that is part of your pattern and how you've communicated with God, uh, something I did and have done for most of my adult life and still do is I journal. It's my I it's how I'm how I pray, it's how I talk to God and how I listen. But doesn't the same thing doesn't work for everybody because the trauma that's stored in my body needs a different release depending on where I'm at. So finding what works for you, it may be this, like me sometimes it's and looking over right now at the chair that's in the corner of my office. And I know that corner, I know where I sit in the morning and have my cup of coffee and my journal, and it's my quiet. And I also know when I'm on a long walk. So there's things that we can do that we can that are part of what we are if you can, and you feel comfortable in your own skin, in your church community, your faith community, and maybe you feel comfortable in a service, maybe you don't, maybe you feel comfortable in some type of group, and maybe you don't. Go what feels most at home in your being. You I did not go to church for two years. My pastor knew my story and was okay with my doing that. Served in church leadership, president of our church board for a while. They knew me, so it wasn't like I've fallen off, saw them during the time, but I couldn't do it. Too many triggers. So don't rush it, give yourself time and find people who will do that, who will say, I give you permission one way or another that you can do your recovery, but it's hard to do it alone.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yeah. So what I'm really hearing is saying, if I can just wrap up what you just shared, which was a beautiful set of really practical ideas, um, is take the pressure off.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Yes. We've done performing, done performing.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

God doesn't want us to perform for him.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Yeah. Yeah. So many of us develop in our faith a sense of I have to perform in order for my spiritual life to be okay and God to be okay with me and the church to be okay with me. And you're saying, done performing, take the pressure off. Allow yourself to be. Listen to what it is that you need. Yes. And surround yourself as much as you can with safe support, support group or individual um support. Yes, ma'am. So as we wrap up, I guess I'd like to invite you to share like a final word of uh encouragement or wisdom to two kinds of people. What's a word um for church leaders, people who are, or even just church helpers, people in a in a context who are coming alongside partners, and then what would you like to say to the partners themselves? So those two things.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Those of us who want to come alongside. What I would say is two things. One, um all of us growing and becoming and our knowledge and understanding of trauma, becoming trauma-informed, can help us understand some of the behaviors we may show up with, just because not just in this field, but definitely in this field. So and sitting with being believe their stories. We can seem highly agitated. We are, we've been traumatized. So listen to us and believe us, trust us and give us space, like I described, I was given. That was a grace gift for me. So it's important to trust God with us when we're struck.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Can I just add something there? Around you said sometimes we can be highly distressed or active activated. I think sometimes also if I wanted to offer an encouragement. Help us around this is sometimes a person is whispering, yes, and they're really yelling on the inside.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

So be attuned to when you hear a whisper, what's going on with that?

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Yes, absolutely. Excellent. Because that would have been me. That would have been me. I would have been the one whispering.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Me too. Sitting in a chair, but in a internally in a fetal position.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

And even if we're enraged and we were like that, we're activated that way, we're really in a fetal position. On the inside. So yeah. For the one struggling. My hope for you is grounded in the amount of understanding there is available now around some of these topics that continues to grow. And our identity is to me is at the core of it. Who am I? That me, I am one. You probably don't feel it. I now feel it. And I hope that's hopeful. I didn't. I know I am the beloved of the beloved. We are the beloved of the beloved. He loves us. My hope and my earnest prayer is just even in speaking that to someone in distress, is it as the same that strong seed that just lands somewhere and grows? That's that little mustard seed of hope. Am I really the beloved of the beloved? Yes, you are, and you are worth being loved well. He loves you with unfailing love. It's unfailing. He will not fail. Yes, they did, but he didn't. He won't. He's present. And that's a message that I think if I can, if I can have that, when this happens, I can go back to something that's more true about me than all the things else that I can think, oh, is this really true? Yes, I can go back to that. I I might pause, I might need to pause because I'm in distress, but I can go back. Wait a minute, this much is true. Maybe all this out here isn't, but this much, yes, you are the beloved of the beloved.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

Thank you, Donna. Yeah, and I and I'm really appreciating that you're planting that as a little seed because I know in myself, and I've worked with many women for whom that is seems impossible in the context of their circumstances.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Absolutely impossible.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

So no pressure here.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

None. Yeah. It's a tiny little seed.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Yeah. We want to offer, I guess, your heart and my heart, Donna, here. And I teared up when you were sharing that just now, just around if if we could see and receive the reality of that, what might be possible?

SPEAKER_01 47:47

First time I heard that was more than 20 years ago. By um his name is Brennan Manning. He's an author of deceased, he's with the Lord. And I never heard that word that spoken that way. It's only become real, deep in me real now at my in within the last 10 years. I own it now. Doesn't mean the 10 years haven't been without distress. We're doing well, but life is filled with distress. But I can now return to that. That's why it's I know it's a seed, but it'll be there. It won't go away.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Yeah. That's the unfailing nature of it.

SPEAKER_01 48:36

That's the unfailing.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

Yeah. Thank you, Donna. I my heart is so full from this conversation. I feel so um hopeful and tender for both the helpers and the partners who might hear what we've talked about today. And um just really coming back to um that there is a painful reality that spiritual distress and disconnection is part of the experience of betrayal trauma. And there are things that we can do to um grow, regrow, normalize, lament all of the things that are happening in that space. And thank you so much for sitting with me and giving hope to people who need that so they can build um confidence again in their spiritual spaces in their heart with God.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

And thank you for bringing me on. It was a joy to be with you as always.

SPEAKER_00 49:47

Yeah, thank you, Donna. Thank you so much for joining me today for this conversation with Donna Dixon. If you're interested in peer facilitator training at a doorway of hope, then get in contact with Donna through the link in the show notes. If you want to know more about how God gets you in your spiritual distress, read my blog post, God as Betrayed Partner, and check out my website for more support. Until next time, gently does it with your beautiful self.